Συγκριση Toshiba HD-DVD και Samsung BluRay..

takisot

Μέλος Δ.Σ.
Staff member
17 June 2006
24,818
Παλλήνη
...απο τον γνωστο Stacey Spears των Secrets of Home Theater, oπου δυστυχως επιβεβαιωνονται οι μετριες εντυπωσεις μας απο την αποδωση του Samsung BD-P1000 BluRay ως απλο DVD player:

"This weekend I decided to run the HD-A1 and BD-P1000 through their paces as an SD DVD player. Some of the tests will apply to HD content while other tests may not. I would have tested the HD capability of both, but I currently do not have a BD version of my tests.

All of the tests conducted can be reproduced by anyone willing to do it. I used three DVDs that are available.
1. AVIA Pro, layer change and deep XX ramp
2. ABT VRS reference test disc, all other tests
3. The Big Lebowski

The players were tested with four displays.
1. Westinghouse 42” 1080p LCD
2. Samsung HL-P5088
3. Samsung HL-S5088W
4. Sony VPL-VW100HT

The primary tests were conducted on the HL-S5088W. The HL-P was used to verify HDMI to DVI conversion. The Westinghouse and Sony were used to test 1080p output from the BD-P1000.

For tests that involved measuring time, I used a Casio stop watch.

I wanted a baseline for the tests I conducted. I used an Oppo 970H 480i HDMI output into an iScan VP30 with the ABT102. These results are in the attached xls.

I set the HD-A1 and BD-P1000 to output 480p for the majority of tests. I fed their HDMI output into the VP30. The VP30 scaled all three sources to 1080p. This was to avoid the introduction of scaling artifacts from either player.

HDMI Format:
The HD-A1 outputs YCbCr 4:2:2 over HDMI when fed into an HDMI device that accepts all HDMI formats.

The BD-P1000 outputs YCbCr 4:4:4 over HDMI when fed into an HDMI device that accepts all HDMI formats.

HDMI Clipping:
This test was to determine if the output of the player under test could pass head (WTW) and toe (BTB) room.

HDMI native path:
HD-A1 – Pass
BD-P1000 – Pass

HDMI to DVI or HDMI to HDMI, non-native path:
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Image Cropping:
The next test was to see if any pixels were being lost from the source image. 0 pixels are considered perfect.

HD-A1:
Left, 0
Top, 0
Right, 0
Bottom, 0

BD-P1000:
Left, 0
Top, 0
Right, 1
Bottom, 2

There was an unusual artifact on the BD-P1000. The top had an extra line above the 2 pixel marker. The bottom had an extra line below the 4 pixel marker. I am at a loss as to why this would occur.

Chroma Bug:
It has been several years since Don Munsil and I first published an article on the subject. You would have thought that by now people would have learned how to do it right. There are three tests covered here.

ICP – The Interlaced Chroma Problem is a design flaw in 4:2:0 interlaced. This test is looking for the presence of a filter to hide the artifact. This artifact will appear on anything encoded as interlaced.

CUE 2-2 – This is to test and see if the chroma bug exists on 25 or 30 frames per second content. This bug will appear on progressive encoded content.

CUE 2-3 – This is to test and see if the chroma bug exists on 24 frames per second content. This bug will appear on progressive encoded content.

HD-A1:
ICP Filter – No
CUE 2-2 – Pass
CUE 2-3 – Pass

BD-P1000:
ICP Filter – Yes
CUE 2-2 – Fail
CUE 2-3 – Fail

Both the HD-A1 and BD-P1000 use the same decoder so I am puzzled. The BD-P1000 should not fail. The Broadcom decoder must be customer (CE manufacturer) programmable or they must be running different firmware.

YC Delay:
I used the YC delay pattern on the ABT disc. The one on the AVIA Pro discs appears to have delay in the pattern itself. I have verified the pattern on the ABT disc by decoding the MPEG2 to 4:2:0 and performing my own conversion to 4:2:2, which is where YC delay can be introduced.

HD-A1 – Pass, no YC delay present
BD-P1000 – Fail, YC delay is present. I have to set the VP30s YC delay adjustment to -9 to correct the problem. I suspect it is ¼ to ½ a pixel off. This has been a problem with all Faroudja products and chipsets.

Layer Break:
I measured the layer break using the layer break test on AVIA Pro.

HD-A1 – 1 second
BD-P1000 – 3 seconds

Eject Time:
This was to test how long it took the player to come out of standby and eject the disc tray. While the player was in standby, I pressed the open button. This is my normal operation with any DVD player. It turns on the player and opens the tray with a single button click.

HD-A1 – 39 seconds
BD-P1000 – 27 seconds

Load Time:
This test was to see how long it took the player to close the tray and get to the main menu of the DVD. I used the ABT disc for my measurements. I started counting when I pressed the close button and stopped as soon as the main menu was displayed.

HD-A1 – 26 seconds
BD-P1000 – 13 seconds

Resolution Change Time:
This test was to see how long it took to change from one output resolution to another.

HD-A1 – 3 seconds
BD-P1000 – 14 seconds

The Samsung would display a warning to the user before changing resolutions. You have to use the setup menu in the player to change resolutions. The front panel displays the resolution.

The Toshiba lets you change the resolution from the remote control.

Analog and digital outputs:
This is just a general comment.

You have to switch between HDMI, Component and Composite/S-Video from the front panel of the BD-P1000. Only one can be active at a time. You must also stop the disc before you can make the change. This is on the front panel of the player.

You must switch between HDMI and Component on the HD-A1. This is done by the remote. The composite video appears to be active all the time. The problem is if you switch inputs on your display while the HDMI output is active, then the player will report an HDMI error (on many displays) and you won’t get video over the composite because the player stops the video.

Comments:
All of the tests up until now are core to the player. These should produce the same results with both SD and HD sources. I have been able to verify that the HD-A1 produces the same results with SD and HD using test patterns I created for both. At this time I cannot test the HD portion of the BD-P1000. I hope to have HD BD tests shortly to confirm.

Vertical Chroma Resolution:
I wanted to see if the players could produce the full vertical chroma resolution. Faroudja has been known to only preserve half of this resolution in the past because they will use inverse telecine on luma and bob on chroma.

HD-A1 – Pass
BD-P1000 – Fail

I used a polyphase vertical chroma resolution pattern from AVIA Pro. It turns out this new Faroudja chip is doing just like the old, it is throwing away half of the vertical chroma resolution.

If this same chip is in fact used for the HD portion, HD films will suffer. I won’t be able to confirm until I have some HD BD test patterns.
 

takisot

Μέλος Δ.Σ.
Staff member
17 June 2006
24,818
Παλλήνη
Deinterlacing:
The following tests are directed at the internal video processing of the player. These may also apply to the 1080p output of the BD-P1000 when playing HD content since it appears to internally convert 1080p to 1080i to 1080p.

The ABT test disc was used for all deinterlacing tests.

2-2 Pulldown:
I used two different clips to test for the ability to perform 2-2 pulldown. The first is the film detail test from ABT.

HD-A1 – Pass
BD-P1000 – Fail

The second is a synthetic wedge from the ABT disc:

HD-A1 – Pass
BD-P1000 – Fail

2-3 Pulldown:
I used two different clips to test for the ability to perform 2-3 pulldown. The first is the film detail test from ABT.

HD-A1 – Pass
BD-P1000 – Pass

The second is a synthetic wedge from the ABT disc:

HD-A1 – Pass
BD-P1000 – Fail

Bad Edits:
I used my standard Big Lebowski trailer to test for dealing with bad edits. A pass will comb 0 times.

HD-A1 – Fail, it combs 4 times
BD-P1000 – Pass

Incoherent Tracking:
This tests a processors ability to maintain lock across an edit that breaks the 2-3 pattern. This is very common on TV shows. Some post houses actually reset a cadence pattern at each chapter point to ensure the chapter begins with an AA.

Edit 1: 3-2-3|3-2
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Edit 2: 3-2-3|2-2-3-2
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Edit 3: 3-2-2|3-2
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Edit 4: 3-2-2|2-3-2
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Edit 5: 3-2-2|2-2-3-2
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Edit 6: 3-2|2-3-2
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Edit 7: 3-2|2-2-3-2
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Motion Adaptive:
This is to test for per-pixel motion adaptive deinterlacing of video based content.

HD-A1 – Pass
BD-P1000 – Pass

Edge Adaptive:
The following tests are to see if a player has the ability to produce clean angles on video based content. DCDi was the first technology to introduce this idea to the consumer market. This occurred in 1997. It took several years before others introduced similar technologies. The first competitor to offer it was Silicon Optix, in 2004.

I tested three ranges of angles along with two real-world clips.

Angle, 20-45 degrees:
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Pass

Angle, 10-25 degrees:
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Pass

Angle, 0-10 degrees:
HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Hockey:
I am looking at the markers on the ice as well as the top of the protective glass.

HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

Ship:
I am looking at the yellow stripes on the side of the boat as well as the ropes between the masts where the horizontal and vertical ropes intersect.

HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Fail

I am not surprised the A1 failed the tests. Not a lot of products offer edge adaptive deinterlacing. I am surprised at the BD-P1000. Previous Faroudja chips, including the FLI2200 and FLI2310 passed both the Hockey and Ship clips. I consider this a pretty big regression for Faroudja.

Mixed Content:
This is to test film content with video subtitles.

HD-A1 – Fail
BD-P1000 – Pass

HD content on a DVD-R:
One of the biggest surprises of HD DVD was the ability to burn HD authored content on a DVD-R and player it in the HD-A1. I have started pulling ATSC from my HD TiVO and burning on a DVD-R to archive.

I am sad to report that this is not possible with BD. BD requires a DVD-R to have AACS in order to work in a BD player or so I understand. This was done to prevent the BD players from being hacked. I believe you can burn onto a BD-RE and play in the BD-P1000. The downside is the cost of a burner is $1,000 and the discs are a lot more expensive than a DVD-R.

1080p:
The holy grail of HD is 1080p. The HD-A1 does not offer 1080p output, which is disappointing. To get 1080p, you need to ensure the device after the HD-A1 offers inverse telecine for 1080i to get the highest quality image.

The BD-P1000 does offer 1080p, but you can’t always get it. The player is too smart for its own good. It disables the 1080p output if it believes the display does not support it.

I tested the BD-P1000 with three 1080p displays.
Sony VPL-VW100HT:
HDMI input – 1080p60 is allowed
DVI input – 1080p60 is not allowed

Westinghouse 42” LCD:
HDMI input – 1080p60 is not allowed

Samsung HL-S5088W:
HDMI input – 1080p60 is allowed

At this time I was only able to get 1080p60 from the output of the BD-P1000."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=689149&page=4&pp=30