8G Pioneer --- Σχόλια Εντός
- Thread starter PETRAN
- Start date
Καλορίζικηηηηηηηηηηηηηηηηηηηηηη.......!!!!!!!!!!!!!:ADFADF1:
Η δικιά μου έρχεται αύριο αλλά η βάση αργεί ακόμα 2-3 μέρες.....:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:
Last edited:
Γιώργο υπομονή ,
μετά όμως :BDGBGDB55::BDGBGDB55::BDGBGDB55::BDGBGDB55::BDGBGDB55:
Θα επιστέψω σύντομα με φωτογραφίες και τις πρώτες εντυπώσεις
-Γιώργος-
Supreme Member
Το παρακάτω συγκριτικό από κάτοχο 428XD και 508XD που δοκίμασε την LX-508 και κατά την γνώμη μου η άποψη του είναι σημαντική:
Picture.
This is more prosumer than consumer, out of the box it is nowhere near as intense as the XD's.
It is very refined and basically putting it straight into cinema mode it looks pretty good with no greyscale tweaking.
You are not going to walk into a shop and go wow
This has got to be seen in a proper dem room.
I had recorded a number of things to look at.
Football on Satanta Sports which is pretty ropey, Heroes off BBC HD couple of HD films, Corrie, Town called Eureka, Sky1 HD.
The first thing with the Footy, the grass was rendered with a proper green. Green is the hardest colour to get right. This just looks right. It handled the lower bitrate with more detail than the XD and far less artifcts, this has got some serious processing power, there really is NO other 1080 set out there that gets close to this and I really mean that. Even Corrie from ITV sky was perfectly watchable. The upscalling is really clean and I've got all the noise reduction off.
Other thing is that there is an extra aspect ratio mode called dot by dot, this is where the pixel map is 1:1.
Sky HD, This looks great there is far more shadow detail. There is an instant 3d pop to the picture and this is with no hours on it, cant wait to get a couple of hundred hours on it.
Tony has years of experience in the broadcast world, he stated that it was the closest domestic set he has seen that gets close to monitors used for production grading.
Part of the education of the settings in the first post is to show what a well calibrated set is capable of. The typical tv purchaser thinks a bright contrasty, edge enhanced overcooked picture is good, as you have seen with the D65 settings this is far from the truth. The LX takes that refinement further. The settings are going to differ from the XD. And if you buy one of these, do yourself a favour and get it ISF'd.
I'm going to get 100 hours on it first before I post any settings but for now put it in cinema mode, turn all the rubbish off as in the D65 settings file, leave contrast at around 34, colour at -2 and sharpness for now at -6.
Blue Ray.
WOW, this is just awesome, I cannot put into words just how good this is. The detail and colour is just in another league.
Went today just to have another look at the Panny PZ. Panny shop in Pinner now has a 50"PZ70.
I dont give a stuff what is being said here, or what the specs say these sets cannot show a Blue ray disk properly at 24f.
It judders like a mother. Yes you see a picture but the frame rate is just wrong.
(Those with Pio sets, chage the frame rate in the options menu from 2 to 1 when watching football, this is what it looks like)
Watched Casino Royal, the scene where Bond and vesper are on the beach the camera pans out and shows the sun over sea, there is masses of false contouring and solerizing round this with the panny,(bands of colour as the intesity changes from the centre outwards) the LX has absolutely none totally smooth gradiation. Again looks at sd from SKy & freeview, this is just soft and noisy on the Panny. Yes you have some enhanced edges but there is just no detail, just looks out of focus.
So is the LX worth the extra £1000 or more difference over the XD.
Well for me most definately, but I suspect for most people the answer will be no. THAT SURPRISED YOU.
As many people state on the forum, you really do not gain very much detail at normal viewing distances with a 50" set let alone a 42". 1080 for most manfacturers is just a marketing thing. The XD as stated with all the reviews is superb, and where Tony and I could see a marked difference I suspect most people wont, the XD still looked really really good, and I was dead happy with it untill this came along.
For the decerning person the difference is most definately there, its like comparing a normal violin to a stratovarius.
If you want megasharp, vivd colours and an ott contrasty picture, dont buy the LX, if you want a refined, accurate, cinematic and engaging experience, with bags of detail then this is for you, and really does put in the performance.
And this is without any calibration.
BUT ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE HOW TO SPEND YOUR MONEY.
Right I have a 6 week old, nicely run in (449 hours) calibrated 508XD with side speakers to sell, this is going onto the classified section for the weekend.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5521462&postcount=5648
Κάτι μου λέει πως όλα τα επερχόμενα reviews θα συμφωνούν με τα παραπάνω. Η τηλεόραση παίζει στην δική της κατηγορία. Τόσο στην τιμή όσο και στην ποιότητα.
Picture.
This is more prosumer than consumer, out of the box it is nowhere near as intense as the XD's.
It is very refined and basically putting it straight into cinema mode it looks pretty good with no greyscale tweaking.
You are not going to walk into a shop and go wow
This has got to be seen in a proper dem room.
I had recorded a number of things to look at.
Football on Satanta Sports which is pretty ropey, Heroes off BBC HD couple of HD films, Corrie, Town called Eureka, Sky1 HD.
The first thing with the Footy, the grass was rendered with a proper green. Green is the hardest colour to get right. This just looks right. It handled the lower bitrate with more detail than the XD and far less artifcts, this has got some serious processing power, there really is NO other 1080 set out there that gets close to this and I really mean that. Even Corrie from ITV sky was perfectly watchable. The upscalling is really clean and I've got all the noise reduction off.
Other thing is that there is an extra aspect ratio mode called dot by dot, this is where the pixel map is 1:1.
Sky HD, This looks great there is far more shadow detail. There is an instant 3d pop to the picture and this is with no hours on it, cant wait to get a couple of hundred hours on it.
Tony has years of experience in the broadcast world, he stated that it was the closest domestic set he has seen that gets close to monitors used for production grading.
Part of the education of the settings in the first post is to show what a well calibrated set is capable of. The typical tv purchaser thinks a bright contrasty, edge enhanced overcooked picture is good, as you have seen with the D65 settings this is far from the truth. The LX takes that refinement further. The settings are going to differ from the XD. And if you buy one of these, do yourself a favour and get it ISF'd.
I'm going to get 100 hours on it first before I post any settings but for now put it in cinema mode, turn all the rubbish off as in the D65 settings file, leave contrast at around 34, colour at -2 and sharpness for now at -6.
Blue Ray.
WOW, this is just awesome, I cannot put into words just how good this is. The detail and colour is just in another league.
Went today just to have another look at the Panny PZ. Panny shop in Pinner now has a 50"PZ70.
I dont give a stuff what is being said here, or what the specs say these sets cannot show a Blue ray disk properly at 24f.
It judders like a mother. Yes you see a picture but the frame rate is just wrong.
(Those with Pio sets, chage the frame rate in the options menu from 2 to 1 when watching football, this is what it looks like)
Watched Casino Royal, the scene where Bond and vesper are on the beach the camera pans out and shows the sun over sea, there is masses of false contouring and solerizing round this with the panny,(bands of colour as the intesity changes from the centre outwards) the LX has absolutely none totally smooth gradiation. Again looks at sd from SKy & freeview, this is just soft and noisy on the Panny. Yes you have some enhanced edges but there is just no detail, just looks out of focus.
So is the LX worth the extra £1000 or more difference over the XD.
Well for me most definately, but I suspect for most people the answer will be no. THAT SURPRISED YOU.
As many people state on the forum, you really do not gain very much detail at normal viewing distances with a 50" set let alone a 42". 1080 for most manfacturers is just a marketing thing. The XD as stated with all the reviews is superb, and where Tony and I could see a marked difference I suspect most people wont, the XD still looked really really good, and I was dead happy with it untill this came along.
For the decerning person the difference is most definately there, its like comparing a normal violin to a stratovarius.
If you want megasharp, vivd colours and an ott contrasty picture, dont buy the LX, if you want a refined, accurate, cinematic and engaging experience, with bags of detail then this is for you, and really does put in the performance.
And this is without any calibration.
BUT ONLY YOU CAN DECIDE HOW TO SPEND YOUR MONEY.
Right I have a 6 week old, nicely run in (449 hours) calibrated 508XD with side speakers to sell, this is going onto the classified section for the weekend.
http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5521462&postcount=5648
Κάτι μου λέει πως όλα τα επερχόμενα reviews θα συμφωνούν με τα παραπάνω. Η τηλεόραση παίζει στην δική της κατηγορία. Τόσο στην τιμή όσο και στην ποιότητα.
Pioneer 50" HD Ready Plasma TV with Digital Tuner PDP-508XD
£1,659.99 inc vat
http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?quicklinx=4Q0S
£1,659.99 inc vat
http://www.dabs.com/productview.aspx?quicklinx=4Q0S
Στο ίδιο site η 428XD την έχει ποιό ακριβά(πως γίνεται?)
http://www.dabs.com/productview.asp...9&NavigationKey=11229&ExposedRefinement=11006
Λες να είναι Price drop από την Pioneer?
http://www.shop.bt.com/productview....vigationKey=11229,4294954189,4294954098,50305
http://www.shop.bt.com/productview....vigationKey=11229,4294954189,4294954098,50305
-Γιώργος-
Supreme Member
Επειδή η εμπειρία μου με τις τηλεοράσεις περιορίζεται στις 29-32'', έκοψα ένα χαρτόνι στο μέγεθος της 5080 και το κόλλησα στον τοίχο εκεί που σκοπεύω να μπει η τηλεόραση για να τσεκάρω το μέγεθος.
Μεγαλύτερη την περίμενα .... -bye-
(απόσταση θέασης 4 μέτρα)
P.S Η επιλογή της 5080 ήταν τυχαία .... αναποφάσιστος είμαι ακόμα
Μεγαλύτερη την περίμενα .... -bye-
(απόσταση θέασης 4 μέτρα)
P.S Η επιλογή της 5080 ήταν τυχαία .... αναποφάσιστος είμαι ακόμα
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Γεια σας! :smile: Μήπως γνωρίζετε σε ποια καταστήματα υπάρχουν διαθέσιμες κάποιες από τις kuro για να τις δει κανείς να παίζουν; Κάτι ηλεκτρονικές αθηνών, κωτσόβολοι, media markt κλπ που πήγα δεν τις φέρνουν.
-Γιώργος-
Supreme Member
Καλώς ήρθες στο forum.
Από τις μεγάλες αλυσίδες μόνο το Πλαίσιο νομίζω τις έχει.
Σε αυτό στην Βουλιαγμένης δεν την είχαν και όταν τους ρώτησα μου είπαν πως πιθανόν να είναι σε display στο κατάστημα τους στο The Mall. Αν είναι στον δρόμο σου ρίξε μια ματιά.
Από τις μεγάλες αλυσίδες μόνο το Πλαίσιο νομίζω τις έχει.
Σε αυτό στην Βουλιαγμένης δεν την είχαν και όταν τους ρώτησα μου είπαν πως πιθανόν να είναι σε display στο κατάστημα τους στο The Mall. Αν είναι στον δρόμο σου ρίξε μια ματιά.
GeonX
Μέλος Σωματείου
- 17 June 2006
- 2,755
Ένα ενδιαφέρον άρθρο στο digitimes.com σχετικά με τις Pio και γενικώς τις Plasma θα έλεγα… οι ίντσες ανεβαίνουν λόγο ανταγωνισμού LCD και αγοράς οι τιμές πέφτουν για το 2008 ισα και με 25%... στη αγορά της Taiwan βέβαια αλλά δε μπορεί κάποια μείωση θα δούμε και εμείς
(Μπάμπη πούλα τώρα που είναι νωρίς )
http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePublish=2007/10/1&pages=PD&seq=203
Pioneer: PDP TV makers eying 60-inch market on rising competition from LCD technology
Rebecca Kuo, Singapore; Emily Chuang, DIGITIMES [Monday 1 October 2007]
The 50- and 60-inch class segments will become the common size in the PDP (plasma display panel) TV market in the future, according to Takashi Fukuro, president of Pioneer High Fidelity Taiwan, a local subsidiary of Pioneer.
In the 50-inch TV market, LCD technology will gradually eat PDP TV's share in 2009 when more eighth-generation (8G) lines come onboard, Fukuro estimated. This will push PDP TV makers to further develop 60-inch class TVs.
The global PDP TV market will reach 16 million units next year, up from 13 million units in 2007, amid the takeoff of digital broadcasting and more acceptance of Blu-ray Disc (BD), Fukuro indicated, adding that Pioneer should be able to deliver 780,000-800,000 PDP TVs in 2008, compared to 720,000 units this year.
Most of Pioneer's PDP TVs are made in-house while only 1.38% are ODM-based, according to sources. Pioneer currently has a capacity of 970,000 PDP TVs per year, the sources added.
Prices for Pioneer PDP TVs will reduce around 25% in 2008 compared quotes this year, noted the company.
In 2007, 42-inch PDP TVs accounted for 80% of the overall PDP TV market while 50-inch class TVs only took 20%, Fukuro stated. The shipment proportion of 50-inch class TVs is expected grow to 25%-30% during 2008, the president noted.
New PDP TVs to hit Taiwan next quarter
Pioneer will introduce its latest 8G Kuro-brand PDP TVs in the Taiwan market during the fourth quarter.
The new 60-inch full HD PDP TV is expected to arrive in the local market during December while its 50-inch 1080p model will hit the market in November. The availability of 42-inch and 50-inch XGA TVs will commence during the second half of October, noted Pioneer Taiwan.
The XGA TVs have a contrast ratio of 16,000:1 while the 1080p TVs are designed with a contrast ratio of 20,000:1, Pioneer said.
Pioneer aims to ship 5,000 PDP TVs this year in the Taiwan market, taking 10% of the overall local market. Shipments from the first nine months from Pioneer totaled 3,500 units locally, up 11% on year. 48% of the shipments were in the 42-inch segment, according to the company.
οι τιμές πέφτουν για το 2008 ισα και με 25%... στη αγορά της Taiwan βέβαια αλλά δε μπορεί κάποια μείωση θα δούμε και εμείς (Μπάμπη πούλα τώρα που είναι νωρίς
)http://www.digitimes.com/NewsShow/MailHome.asp?datePublish=2007/10/1&pages=PD&seq=203
Pioneer: PDP TV makers eying 60-inch market on rising competition from LCD technology
Rebecca Kuo, Singapore; Emily Chuang, DIGITIMES [Monday 1 October 2007]
The 50- and 60-inch class segments will become the common size in the PDP (plasma display panel) TV market in the future, according to Takashi Fukuro, president of Pioneer High Fidelity Taiwan, a local subsidiary of Pioneer.
In the 50-inch TV market, LCD technology will gradually eat PDP TV's share in 2009 when more eighth-generation (8G) lines come onboard, Fukuro estimated. This will push PDP TV makers to further develop 60-inch class TVs.
The global PDP TV market will reach 16 million units next year, up from 13 million units in 2007, amid the takeoff of digital broadcasting and more acceptance of Blu-ray Disc (BD), Fukuro indicated, adding that Pioneer should be able to deliver 780,000-800,000 PDP TVs in 2008, compared to 720,000 units this year.
Most of Pioneer's PDP TVs are made in-house while only 1.38% are ODM-based, according to sources. Pioneer currently has a capacity of 970,000 PDP TVs per year, the sources added.
Prices for Pioneer PDP TVs will reduce around 25% in 2008 compared quotes this year, noted the company.
In 2007, 42-inch PDP TVs accounted for 80% of the overall PDP TV market while 50-inch class TVs only took 20%, Fukuro stated. The shipment proportion of 50-inch class TVs is expected grow to 25%-30% during 2008, the president noted.
New PDP TVs to hit Taiwan next quarter
Pioneer will introduce its latest 8G Kuro-brand PDP TVs in the Taiwan market during the fourth quarter.
The new 60-inch full HD PDP TV is expected to arrive in the local market during December while its 50-inch 1080p model will hit the market in November. The availability of 42-inch and 50-inch XGA TVs will commence during the second half of October, noted Pioneer Taiwan.
The XGA TVs have a contrast ratio of 16,000:1 while the 1080p TVs are designed with a contrast ratio of 20,000:1, Pioneer said.
Pioneer aims to ship 5,000 PDP TVs this year in the Taiwan market, taking 10% of the overall local market. Shipments from the first nine months from Pioneer totaled 3,500 units locally, up 11% on year. 48% of the shipments were in the 42-inch segment, according to the company.
-Γιώργος-
Supreme Member
Καλώς ήρθες στο thread -bye-
Αντιγράφω από avforums
"The only differences that the 428 has over the 4280 are
ISF calibration interface
Subwoofer output
Picture in picture
Better remote
USb input
4280 comes with a stand.
All this is available on Pios website
The new pios are the most resilient plasmas with gaming consoles on the market.
Hope that help"
Την βάση μάλλον θα πρέπει να την αγοράσεις έξτρα, εκτός κι αν καταλήξεις στην 4280. Αν δεν πιστεύεις πως θα χρησιμοποιείς τα παραπάνω έξτρα η 4280 συμφέρει.
Re: Απάντηση: 8G Pioneer --- Σχόλια Εντός
Σ'ευχαριστώ πολύ για την απάντηση!
Επέιδή είμαι με το τηλ. στο χέρι (ήδη δυο συμφορουμήτες μου έδωσαν 2 τηλ.), μπορεί κάποιος να μου πει ΤΙ ΕΚΑΝΕ με το θέμα της βάσης αν δεν πάρω δηλ. δεν μπορώ να την τοποθετήσω,ε?)??? Πόσο κάνει και απο που?? Πάντως πολύ γυφτιά ρε παιδιά.......
Νομίζω ότι αξίζει η διαφορά υπέρ 428, έτσι δεν είναι ? Ουτε καν ΡΙΡ δεν εχει η 4280......
Μου φαίνεται δε με θέλει να αποφασίζω ποτε.....
Σ'ευχαριστώ πολύ για την απάντηση!
Επέιδή είμαι με το τηλ. στο χέρι (ήδη δυο συμφορουμήτες μου έδωσαν 2 τηλ.), μπορεί κάποιος να μου πει ΤΙ ΕΚΑΝΕ με το θέμα της βάσης αν δεν πάρω δηλ. δεν μπορώ να την τοποθετήσω,ε?)??? Πόσο κάνει και απο που?? Πάντως πολύ γυφτιά ρε παιδιά.......
Νομίζω ότι αξίζει η διαφορά υπέρ 428, έτσι δεν είναι ? Ουτε καν ΡΙΡ δεν εχει η 4280......
Μου φαίνεται δε με θέλει να αποφασίζω ποτε.....
Yperion
AVClub Fanatic
Re: Απάντηση: 8G Pioneer --- Σχόλια Εντός
Ισως το πρωτο review της 428XD που αναφερει και μερικα αρνητικα:
On the promise of deep blacks this TV delivers completely. We did think at times that definition of the picture wasn't as good as some other TVs we've seen recently. Some of the new 1080p LCDs, for example, and Samsung's 1080p 50-inch plasma do add more detail to the picture.
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/televisions/0,39030218,49292839,00.htm
Ισως το πρωτο review της 428XD που αναφερει και μερικα αρνητικα:
On the promise of deep blacks this TV delivers completely. We did think at times that definition of the picture wasn't as good as some other TVs we've seen recently. Some of the new 1080p LCDs, for example, and Samsung's 1080p 50-inch plasma do add more detail to the picture.
http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/televisions/0,39030218,49292839,00.htm