kokar
Supreme Member
Δεν θα μπορούσε να γίνει αναστροφή φάσης με την χρήση ενός ΟΡΑΜΡ ?
EIN/AUSGANG PHASENRICHTIG...
- Thread starter Giannis Christou
- Start date
Δεν θα μπορούσε να γίνει αναστροφή φάσης με την χρήση ενός ΟΡΑΜΡ ?
Internet King
Supreme Member
Απάντηση: Re: EIN/AUSGANG PHASENRICHTIG...
Aυτός είναι ο καλύτερος τρόπος . Επίσης γίνεται και με ένα απλό λαμπάτο τριοδικό σταδιο ή με ένα mosfet για παράδειγμα τον προενισχυτή "Bride of ΖΕΝ " του Nelson Pass που αντιστρέφει την φάση του σήματος κατά 180 .
Aυτός είναι ο καλύτερος τρόπος . Επίσης γίνεται και με ένα απλό λαμπάτο τριοδικό σταδιο ή με ένα mosfet για παράδειγμα τον προενισχυτή "Bride of ΖΕΝ " του Nelson Pass που αντιστρέφει την φάση του σήματος κατά 180 .
Internet King
Supreme Member
Αν θέλετε να πάρετε απλά μια γεύση της ανάποδης φάσης, καλύτερα να γυρίσετε ανάποδα τα καλώδια των ηχείων . Το "+" του ενισχυτή πάει στο "-" του ηχείου και το "-" του ενισχυτή πάει στο "+" του ηχείου.
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Internet King
Supreme Member
Κάποτε, αν θυμάμαι καλά, η QUAD έφάρμοζε ένα τέχνασμα . Εκανε αναστροφή φάσης μεταξύ προ και τελικού σταδίου στο ένα μόνο κανάλι. Στην έξοδο του τελικού σταδίου το διόρθωνε πάλι με αναστροφή φάσης ώστε και τα δύο κανάλια να φεύγουν με την ίδια φάση προς τα ηχεία.
Η λογική της ήταν απλή. Οταν το ένα κανάλι του τελικού σταδίου είχε απαιτήσεις ρεύματος από το "-" της συμμετρικής τροφοδοσίας το άλλο κανάλι είχε απαιτήσεις ρεύματος από το "+" της τροφοδοσίας.
Με αυτό τον τρόπο πίστευε η QUAD ότι γίνεται καλύτερη εκμετάλλευση των αποθεμάτων ρεύματος της τροφοδοσίας.
Αν θυμάται κάποιος ακριβώς πως λειτουργούσε αυτό το τέχνασμα, ας μας το θυμίσει.
Η λογική της ήταν απλή. Οταν το ένα κανάλι του τελικού σταδίου είχε απαιτήσεις ρεύματος από το "-" της συμμετρικής τροφοδοσίας το άλλο κανάλι είχε απαιτήσεις ρεύματος από το "+" της τροφοδοσίας.
Με αυτό τον τρόπο πίστευε η QUAD ότι γίνεται καλύτερη εκμετάλλευση των αποθεμάτων ρεύματος της τροφοδοσίας.
Αν θυμάται κάποιος ακριβώς πως λειτουργούσε αυτό το τέχνασμα, ας μας το θυμίσει.
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Internet King
Supreme Member
Μια άλλη μέθοδος αντιστροφής φάσης σε απίπεδο προενισχυτή ή πηγής γίνεται εύκoλα όταν ο προενισχυτής ή η πηγή μας διαθέτουν balanced έξοδο.
Το pin 2 "hot" με το pin 3 "cold" είναι δύο ίδια σήματα με αντίστροφη φάση .
To pin 1 είναι το ground (cable shield).
Επομένως από το pin 3 παίρνουμε ανά πάσα στιγμή "inverted polarity".
Αυτό δουλεύει όταν το άλλο άκρο του καλωδίου τερματίζεtαι σε RCA. Συνδέουμε το pin 3 με το σήμα του RCA και το pin 1 με την θωράκιση του RCA. Το pin 2 στο XLR δεν το συνδεουμε πουθενά .
Μια άλλη μέθοδος αναστροφής φάσης είναι αυτή που χρησιμοποιεί μετασχηματιστή σήματος. Σε αυτή την περίπτωση δεν δημιουργούνται θόρυβοι λόγω των γειώσεων.
Το pin 2 "hot" με το pin 3 "cold" είναι δύο ίδια σήματα με αντίστροφη φάση .
To pin 1 είναι το ground (cable shield).
Επομένως από το pin 3 παίρνουμε ανά πάσα στιγμή "inverted polarity".
Αυτό δουλεύει όταν το άλλο άκρο του καλωδίου τερματίζεtαι σε RCA. Συνδέουμε το pin 3 με το σήμα του RCA και το pin 1 με την θωράκιση του RCA. Το pin 2 στο XLR δεν το συνδεουμε πουθενά .
Μια άλλη μέθοδος αναστροφής φάσης είναι αυτή που χρησιμοποιεί μετασχηματιστή σήματος. Σε αυτή την περίπτωση δεν δημιουργούνται θόρυβοι λόγω των γειώσεων.
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Internet King
Supreme Member
Aπόσπασμα από ένα άρθρο του 6moons .
We're not entirely done yet. If you must correct for absolute polarity at the speaker leads rather than at the source or preamp, you're potentially changing THD in audibly significant ways. That depends on the amplifier/speaker interaction. Blame Eduardo de Lima of Audiopax for the math that explains this phenomenon to further confuse the polarity/phase issue. Connecting both your speakers out-of-phase relative to your amp can sound better than in phase. That's because just enough harmonic distortion cancellation occurs in one position -- i.e. some of the amp's THD is cancelled by being out of phase with the speaker's innate distortion -- that it sounds consistently better that way. This of course won't require endless flip-flopping of speaker leads. It's something you merely do once at the amplifier. Mind you, this adjustment is not about transient fidelity. It primarily affects timbre and tone. It's thus different from absolute polarity effects but could be the audibly more meaningful choice to make. That depends on your amplifier/speaker interface.
http://www.sixmoons.com/industryfeatures/polarity/polarity.html
We're not entirely done yet. If you must correct for absolute polarity at the speaker leads rather than at the source or preamp, you're potentially changing THD in audibly significant ways. That depends on the amplifier/speaker interaction. Blame Eduardo de Lima of Audiopax for the math that explains this phenomenon to further confuse the polarity/phase issue. Connecting both your speakers out-of-phase relative to your amp can sound better than in phase. That's because just enough harmonic distortion cancellation occurs in one position -- i.e. some of the amp's THD is cancelled by being out of phase with the speaker's innate distortion -- that it sounds consistently better that way. This of course won't require endless flip-flopping of speaker leads. It's something you merely do once at the amplifier. Mind you, this adjustment is not about transient fidelity. It primarily affects timbre and tone. It's thus different from absolute polarity effects but could be the audibly more meaningful choice to make. That depends on your amplifier/speaker interface.
http://www.sixmoons.com/industryfeatures/polarity/polarity.html
Internet King
Supreme Member
Ενα απλό κύκλωμα για την αναστροφή της φάσης σε επίπεδο προενισχυτή.
(ειδικά το δεύτερο μου αρέσει περισσότερο)
http://sound.westhost.com/project107.htm
(ειδικά το δεύτερο μου αρέσει περισσότερο)
http://sound.westhost.com/project107.htm
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Internet King
Supreme Member
Απάντηση: Re: EIN/AUSGANG PHASENRICHTIG...
Δικό μου το λάθος που δεν το εξήγησα σωστά στην αρχή, sorry. Αυτό που έγραψα δεν ισχύει για όλους τους τύπους προενισχυτών. Εάν η έξοδος του προενισχυτή σου διαθέτει μετασχηματιστή/ απομονωτή τότε μόνο μπορείς να αντιστρέψεις την φάση στην έξοδο. Διαφορετικά δεν θα δουλέψει σωστά.
Σε διαφορετική περίπτωση , η αντιστροφή γίνεται είτε με inverter τελεστικό είτε με ένα απλό στάδιο που αντιστρέφει τη φάση. Δες τα κυκλώματα με τους τελεστικούς που ανέβασα σε προηγούμενο post. :ernaehrung004:
Δικό μου το λάθος που δεν το εξήγησα σωστά στην αρχή, sorry. Αυτό που έγραψα δεν ισχύει για όλους τους τύπους προενισχυτών. Εάν η έξοδος του προενισχυτή σου διαθέτει μετασχηματιστή/ απομονωτή τότε μόνο μπορείς να αντιστρέψεις την φάση στην έξοδο. Διαφορετικά δεν θα δουλέψει σωστά.
Σε διαφορετική περίπτωση , η αντιστροφή γίνεται είτε με inverter τελεστικό είτε με ένα απλό στάδιο που αντιστρέφει τη φάση. Δες τα κυκλώματα με τους τελεστικούς που ανέβασα σε προηγούμενο post. :ernaehrung004:
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kokar
Supreme Member
Internet King
Supreme Member
Μ.Τζωρτζάκης - MTZ audio
AVClub Addicted Member
Φυσικά και αυτό χρειάζεται , γι αυτό και το ανέφερα σάν στάδιο απομόνωσης
...σαφώς γίνεται και με το κύκλωμα απο τον Elliot , αλλά το καλύτερο απ όλα θα ήταν να υπάρχει ενας απομονωτής με στρέφουσα και ένας με μή στρέφουσα τοπολογία έτσι ώστε και η απολάβη , αλλά και ο ήχος να είναι περίπου ο ιδιος ..
Αλλη λύση είναι η κατάλληλη χρήση ενός M/T
Αλλά συνεχίζω να μήν "βλέπω" τήν χρήση και τήν χρησιμότητα
kokar
Supreme Member
Re: Απάντηση: EIN/AUSGANG PHASENRICHTIG...
Πάντως πιστεύω ότι ο F4558 είναι καλύτερος από τον TL072.
Πάντως πιστεύω ότι ο F4558 είναι καλύτερος από τον TL072.
Internet King
Supreme Member
Kokar, αν σου πω ότι έχω ακόμα κάτι τελεστικούς πρώτης γενιάς 741 Πορτογαλέζικους που παίζουν παπάδες, τι θα πεις ?
Χα Χα Χα , σαν λάμπες παίζουν !!!
Χα Χα Χα , σαν λάμπες παίζουν !!!
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Βαγγέλης Καινούργιος
Senior Member
Πάνω στο θέμα της "απόλυτης φάσης" έχουν γραφτεί και ειπωθεί πολλά. Άλλοι λένε ότι ακούγεται, άλλοι ότι δεν. Όπως και νάχει, ο πιο απλός τρόπος να αλλάξει κανείς τη φάση είναι αντιστρέφοντας τα καλώδια (+ και -) των ηχείων. Όλοι οι άλλοι τρόοι προϋποθέτουν balanced στάδιο, όπου η αναστροφή φάσης είναι πολύ εύκολη με έναν διακόπτη. Σίγουρα, όμως, είναι τελείως λάθος η αντιμετάθεση των καλωδίων σήματος και επιστροφής σε single ended σχεδίαση, όπως είναι και στο μέγιστο ποσοστό των μηχανημάτων μας.
Παραθέτω ένα πολύ καλό κείμενο σχετικά με το θέμα από το Positive Feedback. Το κείμενο δεν υπάρχει πλέον online, αλλά το είχα σώσει:
Yes, Polarity is Absolute—But Only Your Ears Know For Sure!
by Clark Johnsen
The topic of acoustic polarity, also known as Absolute Polarity, has cropped up again recently. No surprise—since 1962 it’s lingered in the professional literature, where most researchers claim that polarity matters greatly. But today, who cares?
For that sorry state of affairs, you can blame the commercial audio press. For whatever reason, hardly a whiff of this vital phenomenon ever appears in those precincts. Ultimate Audio, with two feature articles, became by default an exemplar of polarity awareness—quite so, as ultimate audio cannot be achieved without it! A personal disclaimer: I have often called polarity the sine qua non of correct audio practice. As author of the only book on the topic (The Wood Effect: Unaccounted Contributor to Error and Confusion in Acoustics and Audio, ISBN 0-929383-00-1), which explains everything, I naturally applaud the renewed attention. And I remember how Michael Gindi, an Ultimate Audio contributor, once toured the Stereophile Show chanting, “If you can’t hear the Wood Effect, you can’t hear!” I expect he still stands by that, though nary a peep recently.
Oh, the Wood Effect. Discovered by Charles Wood at the Defense Research Laboratory in 1957, it was first reported in 1962 in the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America. “Wood used as a signal a sinusoid partially clipped during half of each cycle. The resulting sound had a different timbre when the flat-topped portion was presented to the ear as a rarefaction, than it did when leads were reversed and the flat-topped portion was presented as a compression.” There you have it, ladies and gentlemen: An asymmetric sinusoidal signal, presented those two dissimilar ways, with no other distortion, was proven to sound very different each way. Let’s see, what else in the sonic realm generates asymmetric signals? Well, ta da! That would be musical instruments! Which explains how polarity permeates our entire audio world, albeit through negligence, because we hear normal and inverted polarity (more accurately, compression and rarefaction) so very dissimilarly, ,yet rarely are they differentiated by us in playback.
The abstract to The Wood Effect says it best: “Masked by random combination with other distortions in the music reproduction chain, an unsuspected major contributor has lain hidden: Aural sensitivity to ‛phase inversion’ — the Wood Effect.”
“Music normally creates compression waves. Electronics, however, often invert that natural, positive polarity to unnatural, negative rarefaction, thus diminishing physical and aesthetic impact. The term Absolute Polarity uniquely describes the correct arrival to the ear of wavefronts from loudspeakers, with respect to actual musical instruments.”
“Wrong polarity, when isolated, is obvious to everyone. Its present neglect results from habitual disregard for phase response, especially in loudspeakers.”
Phase accuracy has never much mattered to speaker designers (I might have continued), producing what Richard Greiner has termed “the crossover catastrophe,” referring to high-order crossovers that blunt the polarity sense. We must also endure a haphazard engraving of polarity on delivery media, which causes variances from disc to disc, from side to side, from cut to cut, and even within a single cut. Thoroughly permeated by all that confusion, many people throw up their hands in despair and declare that polarity cannot matter. But they are wrong, and therein hangs a tale. Polarity, in its pure state, as with one musical instrument recorded on one channel (designated. a monaural phase effect, or MPE), is perfectly audible, and provably so. Reproduced incorrectly, it becomes what I call “the muffling distortion,” because our ears detect an inverted leading transient and suppress the impulse response. Thus the pluck on a guitar string, so striking in real life, becomes dull, muted, and inexpressive. A musician might say, “You can’t hear the fingers, man.”
So? So, to repeat, Absolute Polarity, which earns caps by defining the only true absolute in audio, requires that the loudspeaker (whichever way the recording may be) generate a compression wave whenever the actual musical instrument does. Live music has punch, but music often lacks that aspect when heard over an audio system; that’s your polarity distortion.
But how to explain? How does impact so often become expact? How sound becomes... muffled? Without a protocol as to how any recorded medium should store positive polarity—a one or a zero, an inside or an outside groove excursion, don’t ask the AES!—the randomness among tape recorders, studio toys and mastering gear is transferred onto delivery media in similar fashion and left for correction by... what? Only our ears! Pretty weird, huh? You actually have to listen to tell which way is right? No meters, no nothing to assist? God! What’s wrong with those audio engineers? Where are they when you really need them?
To those of us who hear polarity, and we are legion, this whole state of affairs seems ludicrous. Over a low-phase-distortion audio system, no one ever misses the right call. Never! For example, everyone who crosses my own threshold gets it by the second try. Later, granted, people become dissatisfied with the situation and begin to berate the recording industry and the electronics manufacturers, who rarely provide compensation for polarity. Nor is the press exempted from obloquy, along with our vaunted high end “designers,” who largely ignore polarity. Those listeners who know about it, however, mostly blame the press for not informing them earlier, and for being more interested in promoting new gear for sale, at the expense of basic principles.
Readers should be grateful therefore for any assistance at all; and this phenomenon of Absolute Polarity apprises them of a major improvement, available without purchase of anything new. Better sound for free, as I have proclaimed for years. How often do you find that? (Although one could do worse than to invest in the Remote Phono Polarity Control from Lewis Labs. The wired version sells for $400, the wireless for $650. Phone: 305-667-2601).
But as to why I’m on the case again, there are problems in those Ultimate Audio articles by Mrs. Herron and Fredell—and elsewhere too, notably in an e-zine, in a piece authored by Doug Blackburn, outstanding for its wrong-headedness. These writers (and many others, too) confuse small-case polarity with Absolute Polarity. Also, they use “polarity” interchangeably with “phase.” Phase could mean any degree, while polarity denotes precisely the 180° condition. Third, they all seem to think that the Absolute inheres in recorded media, whereas in truth it occurs only at the final impingement point: your ear. To quote Mr. Herron: “Absolute polarity can be lost... and again restored in many places in the recording and playback chain.” No, Keith! You mean, simply, polarity. And not “lost,” either: polarity never disappears, it only reverses itself, time and again.
Then Mr. Fredell: “Remember, a musical instrument has one polarity—the absolute polarity.” No, Lars; an instrument has only its own polarity. It falls on us to recognize the Absolute at our ears, for right reproduction. Not to beat an almost-dead horse, but here’s Sedrick Harris, too, in Ultimate Audio (Fall 2000): “Note: The absolute polarity of this recording is 180° wrong.” No! The Absolute is achieved only case by case; it is not written into law regarding any groove or any gear. Never mind that Harry Pearson, Robert Harley, and scores of others who should know better have made the same mistake, readers by now should recognize their common error, which allows confusion to reign.
Confusion reigns perhaps nowhere more so than in Doug Blackburn’s peculiar column on Soundstage (October 1999). Let the record show, I once entertained Doug and his droll wife Tracy at The Listening Studio, then back home for dinner, and we got along just fine. Afterwards, he hardly spoke to me again, and published an article about the Vibraplane that, to my mind, quite misrepresented it. Later he wrote a long-winded article opposing polarity without once acknowledging my book or its arguments. I do not take that personally, but since I am about to disrupt his party, the question might arise.
Mr. Blackburn begins his tale auspiciously enough: “When the scientist selects a test with hidden variables, the test may end up being invalidated later.” Quite right, but then: “The experiments that prove polarity is audible have been incorrectly performed for decades.” Very well, how? “In every case I’ve seen, these experiments are conducted by reversing the connections somewhere in the audio signal chain.” All right, what’s wrong with that? “None of those methods are adequate for evaluating the audibility of polarity reversal.” And why not? “When you reverse the connections at a loudspeaker... you also reverse the direction the audio signal is applied to wire in the loudspeaker.”
There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. No one who performed these experiments “ever seems to have evaluated the audibility of reversal of direction of signal travel in wires... All of them made the same mistake—assuming that polarity reversal is the cause of the change in sound they hear.” So the trick’s in the metal! “This information would seem to imply that switching polarity could very well be inaudible.” How to respond to what I would call errant nonsense? Well, for one thing, I am conversant with wire-direction anomalies. I keep one set of cables hanging around, not because they sound good (they don’t), but to demonstrate the aural effect of reversal, which in this case is fairly dramatic—but nothing like polarity. Doug is correct about wire directionality; where he errs is in attributing the whole of polarity audibility to that phenomenon.
Other objections to his thesis quickly arise. For instance, what if the reversal is accomplished with an internal switch? Very little wire within a switch! Ah, but Blackburn argues that “reversing the direction the audio signal is applied” to any wire produces his effect, which means that even switching cartridge leads, or bits in the digital domain, will change the performance of all wires following. Likewise, switching even the internal loudspeaker leads right at the drivers—after all, there are still the coil windings in which the signal may be altered by those nonlinearities we (wrongly) associate with polarity. Don’t forget, “reversing the direction the audio signal is applied to wire in the loudspeaker” explains the entire phenomenon. Whatever expanse of wire may be involved following the switch point, we are assured that only it must be blamed for what we hear.
Let’s inspect that claim more closely. Just what does the writer mean? It’s not “hot” and “cold” that are actually switched. Ground remains grounded, nor do electrons change their general direction of travel with audio polarity reversal. Wires know nothing about acoustic compression and rarefaction wavefronts. In any event, they represent the opposite sides of a sine wave slope, both of which they pass with equal ease. With signals continuously fluctuating, as musical instruments comprise a mix of both modes, are we to suppose that wires somehow differentiate these? That would be the result required by Blackburn’s astonishing, but ultimately insupportable analysis.
I cannot imagine why he feels the need to deny a perfectly obvious and simple physical principle, thus doing Soundstage readers a severe disservice. Perhaps his confusion arises from that common misapprehension: “You really need to use recordings that are known to be polarity correct.” Once again: There are no standards for “polarity correctness” on tapes, records, or CDs. None. Nada. It is a fantasy that leads you astray.
Another fantasy?
The estimable Keith Herron, in his article “Is Absolute Polarity Absolute?” (Ultimate Audio, Fall 2000), begins very logically, too. “Is absolute polarity audible? Absolutely!” But then immediately we are told, “But what are you really hearing when you flip that polarity switch—or reverse those speaker wires?” Uh oh! Could it be... something else again? Yes, as it happens. “Did adding the phase inverter change the sound? You bet! But it also changed the measurable distortion products.” And beyond that, “Will the speaker cone go in, exactly the same way it goes out?” Those arguments have been heard before, and the only proper reply is, so what? We learn to live with electronic distortion, and in fact some speakers—ribbons, for instance— don’t even have cones, yet reproduce polarity effects clearly. Mr. Herron concludes his sadly obfuscatory article on this somewhat weasely note: “It just might be that distortion products in the recording process cancel or add differently with those in the playback process. Is there anything absolute about this? Absolutely not!”
The final pitch
Just a couple things to wind up. The fact that ever-popular high-order speaker crossovers perilously blunt the polarity sense was ignored in these recent articles. And, while Lars’ laudable call for panel (or remote control) polarity switches should be heeded, many such, for whatever reason, barely reveal the polarity condition, even in the vaunted digital domain. The best way to teach yourself—pace, Doug Blackburn—is to reverse all four (or eight) speaker wires, tediously back and forth, to learn the condition, then play it from there. Your rewards will more than compensate the effort, believe me! Remember, no one ever promised you that audio would be easy.
Finally, I must dispute Lars’ list of polarities by CD label, which he first published several years ago in Fi. While perhaps useful as a rough guide, such happy consistency rarely obtains, except perhaps for some very small labels. Major labels split pretty much 50/50, as the laws of statistics demand whenever no control is exerted over a binary event. To whatever extent Lars may be right, his evaluation applies only to the opening bands; subsequent ones can vary willy-nilly.
That very confusing 50/50 split was the central revelation of The Wood Effect, remaining as true today as ever, sad to say. For a superlative corroboration of that principle, I offer Lars’ list itself: Its 88 entries for label polarity are tellingly divided 43/45. Eternal vigilance is ever the price of the true Absolute.
Καλή ανάγνωση!
Παραθέτω ένα πολύ καλό κείμενο σχετικά με το θέμα από το Positive Feedback. Το κείμενο δεν υπάρχει πλέον online, αλλά το είχα σώσει:
Yes, Polarity is Absolute—But Only Your Ears Know For Sure!
by Clark Johnsen
The topic of acoustic polarity, also known as Absolute Polarity, has cropped up again recently. No surprise—since 1962 it’s lingered in the professional literature, where most researchers claim that polarity matters greatly. But today, who cares?
For that sorry state of affairs, you can blame the commercial audio press. For whatever reason, hardly a whiff of this vital phenomenon ever appears in those precincts. Ultimate Audio, with two feature articles, became by default an exemplar of polarity awareness—quite so, as ultimate audio cannot be achieved without it! A personal disclaimer: I have often called polarity the sine qua non of correct audio practice. As author of the only book on the topic (The Wood Effect: Unaccounted Contributor to Error and Confusion in Acoustics and Audio, ISBN 0-929383-00-1), which explains everything, I naturally applaud the renewed attention. And I remember how Michael Gindi, an Ultimate Audio contributor, once toured the Stereophile Show chanting, “If you can’t hear the Wood Effect, you can’t hear!” I expect he still stands by that, though nary a peep recently.
Oh, the Wood Effect. Discovered by Charles Wood at the Defense Research Laboratory in 1957, it was first reported in 1962 in the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America. “Wood used as a signal a sinusoid partially clipped during half of each cycle. The resulting sound had a different timbre when the flat-topped portion was presented to the ear as a rarefaction, than it did when leads were reversed and the flat-topped portion was presented as a compression.” There you have it, ladies and gentlemen: An asymmetric sinusoidal signal, presented those two dissimilar ways, with no other distortion, was proven to sound very different each way. Let’s see, what else in the sonic realm generates asymmetric signals? Well, ta da! That would be musical instruments! Which explains how polarity permeates our entire audio world, albeit through negligence, because we hear normal and inverted polarity (more accurately, compression and rarefaction) so very dissimilarly, ,yet rarely are they differentiated by us in playback.
The abstract to The Wood Effect says it best: “Masked by random combination with other distortions in the music reproduction chain, an unsuspected major contributor has lain hidden: Aural sensitivity to ‛phase inversion’ — the Wood Effect.”
“Music normally creates compression waves. Electronics, however, often invert that natural, positive polarity to unnatural, negative rarefaction, thus diminishing physical and aesthetic impact. The term Absolute Polarity uniquely describes the correct arrival to the ear of wavefronts from loudspeakers, with respect to actual musical instruments.”
“Wrong polarity, when isolated, is obvious to everyone. Its present neglect results from habitual disregard for phase response, especially in loudspeakers.”
Phase accuracy has never much mattered to speaker designers (I might have continued), producing what Richard Greiner has termed “the crossover catastrophe,” referring to high-order crossovers that blunt the polarity sense. We must also endure a haphazard engraving of polarity on delivery media, which causes variances from disc to disc, from side to side, from cut to cut, and even within a single cut. Thoroughly permeated by all that confusion, many people throw up their hands in despair and declare that polarity cannot matter. But they are wrong, and therein hangs a tale. Polarity, in its pure state, as with one musical instrument recorded on one channel (designated. a monaural phase effect, or MPE), is perfectly audible, and provably so. Reproduced incorrectly, it becomes what I call “the muffling distortion,” because our ears detect an inverted leading transient and suppress the impulse response. Thus the pluck on a guitar string, so striking in real life, becomes dull, muted, and inexpressive. A musician might say, “You can’t hear the fingers, man.”
So? So, to repeat, Absolute Polarity, which earns caps by defining the only true absolute in audio, requires that the loudspeaker (whichever way the recording may be) generate a compression wave whenever the actual musical instrument does. Live music has punch, but music often lacks that aspect when heard over an audio system; that’s your polarity distortion.
But how to explain? How does impact so often become expact? How sound becomes... muffled? Without a protocol as to how any recorded medium should store positive polarity—a one or a zero, an inside or an outside groove excursion, don’t ask the AES!—the randomness among tape recorders, studio toys and mastering gear is transferred onto delivery media in similar fashion and left for correction by... what? Only our ears! Pretty weird, huh? You actually have to listen to tell which way is right? No meters, no nothing to assist? God! What’s wrong with those audio engineers? Where are they when you really need them?
To those of us who hear polarity, and we are legion, this whole state of affairs seems ludicrous. Over a low-phase-distortion audio system, no one ever misses the right call. Never! For example, everyone who crosses my own threshold gets it by the second try. Later, granted, people become dissatisfied with the situation and begin to berate the recording industry and the electronics manufacturers, who rarely provide compensation for polarity. Nor is the press exempted from obloquy, along with our vaunted high end “designers,” who largely ignore polarity. Those listeners who know about it, however, mostly blame the press for not informing them earlier, and for being more interested in promoting new gear for sale, at the expense of basic principles.
Readers should be grateful therefore for any assistance at all; and this phenomenon of Absolute Polarity apprises them of a major improvement, available without purchase of anything new. Better sound for free, as I have proclaimed for years. How often do you find that? (Although one could do worse than to invest in the Remote Phono Polarity Control from Lewis Labs. The wired version sells for $400, the wireless for $650. Phone: 305-667-2601).
But as to why I’m on the case again, there are problems in those Ultimate Audio articles by Mrs. Herron and Fredell—and elsewhere too, notably in an e-zine, in a piece authored by Doug Blackburn, outstanding for its wrong-headedness. These writers (and many others, too) confuse small-case polarity with Absolute Polarity. Also, they use “polarity” interchangeably with “phase.” Phase could mean any degree, while polarity denotes precisely the 180° condition. Third, they all seem to think that the Absolute inheres in recorded media, whereas in truth it occurs only at the final impingement point: your ear. To quote Mr. Herron: “Absolute polarity can be lost... and again restored in many places in the recording and playback chain.” No, Keith! You mean, simply, polarity. And not “lost,” either: polarity never disappears, it only reverses itself, time and again.
Then Mr. Fredell: “Remember, a musical instrument has one polarity—the absolute polarity.” No, Lars; an instrument has only its own polarity. It falls on us to recognize the Absolute at our ears, for right reproduction. Not to beat an almost-dead horse, but here’s Sedrick Harris, too, in Ultimate Audio (Fall 2000): “Note: The absolute polarity of this recording is 180° wrong.” No! The Absolute is achieved only case by case; it is not written into law regarding any groove or any gear. Never mind that Harry Pearson, Robert Harley, and scores of others who should know better have made the same mistake, readers by now should recognize their common error, which allows confusion to reign.
Confusion reigns perhaps nowhere more so than in Doug Blackburn’s peculiar column on Soundstage (October 1999). Let the record show, I once entertained Doug and his droll wife Tracy at The Listening Studio, then back home for dinner, and we got along just fine. Afterwards, he hardly spoke to me again, and published an article about the Vibraplane that, to my mind, quite misrepresented it. Later he wrote a long-winded article opposing polarity without once acknowledging my book or its arguments. I do not take that personally, but since I am about to disrupt his party, the question might arise.
Mr. Blackburn begins his tale auspiciously enough: “When the scientist selects a test with hidden variables, the test may end up being invalidated later.” Quite right, but then: “The experiments that prove polarity is audible have been incorrectly performed for decades.” Very well, how? “In every case I’ve seen, these experiments are conducted by reversing the connections somewhere in the audio signal chain.” All right, what’s wrong with that? “None of those methods are adequate for evaluating the audibility of polarity reversal.” And why not? “When you reverse the connections at a loudspeaker... you also reverse the direction the audio signal is applied to wire in the loudspeaker.”
There you have it, ladies and gentlemen. No one who performed these experiments “ever seems to have evaluated the audibility of reversal of direction of signal travel in wires... All of them made the same mistake—assuming that polarity reversal is the cause of the change in sound they hear.” So the trick’s in the metal! “This information would seem to imply that switching polarity could very well be inaudible.” How to respond to what I would call errant nonsense? Well, for one thing, I am conversant with wire-direction anomalies. I keep one set of cables hanging around, not because they sound good (they don’t), but to demonstrate the aural effect of reversal, which in this case is fairly dramatic—but nothing like polarity. Doug is correct about wire directionality; where he errs is in attributing the whole of polarity audibility to that phenomenon.
Other objections to his thesis quickly arise. For instance, what if the reversal is accomplished with an internal switch? Very little wire within a switch! Ah, but Blackburn argues that “reversing the direction the audio signal is applied” to any wire produces his effect, which means that even switching cartridge leads, or bits in the digital domain, will change the performance of all wires following. Likewise, switching even the internal loudspeaker leads right at the drivers—after all, there are still the coil windings in which the signal may be altered by those nonlinearities we (wrongly) associate with polarity. Don’t forget, “reversing the direction the audio signal is applied to wire in the loudspeaker” explains the entire phenomenon. Whatever expanse of wire may be involved following the switch point, we are assured that only it must be blamed for what we hear.
Let’s inspect that claim more closely. Just what does the writer mean? It’s not “hot” and “cold” that are actually switched. Ground remains grounded, nor do electrons change their general direction of travel with audio polarity reversal. Wires know nothing about acoustic compression and rarefaction wavefronts. In any event, they represent the opposite sides of a sine wave slope, both of which they pass with equal ease. With signals continuously fluctuating, as musical instruments comprise a mix of both modes, are we to suppose that wires somehow differentiate these? That would be the result required by Blackburn’s astonishing, but ultimately insupportable analysis.
I cannot imagine why he feels the need to deny a perfectly obvious and simple physical principle, thus doing Soundstage readers a severe disservice. Perhaps his confusion arises from that common misapprehension: “You really need to use recordings that are known to be polarity correct.” Once again: There are no standards for “polarity correctness” on tapes, records, or CDs. None. Nada. It is a fantasy that leads you astray.
Another fantasy?
The estimable Keith Herron, in his article “Is Absolute Polarity Absolute?” (Ultimate Audio, Fall 2000), begins very logically, too. “Is absolute polarity audible? Absolutely!” But then immediately we are told, “But what are you really hearing when you flip that polarity switch—or reverse those speaker wires?” Uh oh! Could it be... something else again? Yes, as it happens. “Did adding the phase inverter change the sound? You bet! But it also changed the measurable distortion products.” And beyond that, “Will the speaker cone go in, exactly the same way it goes out?” Those arguments have been heard before, and the only proper reply is, so what? We learn to live with electronic distortion, and in fact some speakers—ribbons, for instance— don’t even have cones, yet reproduce polarity effects clearly. Mr. Herron concludes his sadly obfuscatory article on this somewhat weasely note: “It just might be that distortion products in the recording process cancel or add differently with those in the playback process. Is there anything absolute about this? Absolutely not!”
The final pitch
Just a couple things to wind up. The fact that ever-popular high-order speaker crossovers perilously blunt the polarity sense was ignored in these recent articles. And, while Lars’ laudable call for panel (or remote control) polarity switches should be heeded, many such, for whatever reason, barely reveal the polarity condition, even in the vaunted digital domain. The best way to teach yourself—pace, Doug Blackburn—is to reverse all four (or eight) speaker wires, tediously back and forth, to learn the condition, then play it from there. Your rewards will more than compensate the effort, believe me! Remember, no one ever promised you that audio would be easy.
Finally, I must dispute Lars’ list of polarities by CD label, which he first published several years ago in Fi. While perhaps useful as a rough guide, such happy consistency rarely obtains, except perhaps for some very small labels. Major labels split pretty much 50/50, as the laws of statistics demand whenever no control is exerted over a binary event. To whatever extent Lars may be right, his evaluation applies only to the opening bands; subsequent ones can vary willy-nilly.
That very confusing 50/50 split was the central revelation of The Wood Effect, remaining as true today as ever, sad to say. For a superlative corroboration of that principle, I offer Lars’ list itself: Its 88 entries for label polarity are tellingly divided 43/45. Eternal vigilance is ever the price of the true Absolute.
Καλή ανάγνωση!
Achtung-Achtung
Τα αποτελεσματα απο την χθεσινη δοκιμη:
Δεν πηρα κανενα βομβο απο την μεταθεση του (+) στην γειωση.
Υπαρχει διαφορα, σε καθε δισκο που ακουσα (LP).Μικρη η μεγαλη.
Μαλιστα ανακαλυψα και 2 δισκους που γραφανε με μικρα γραμματα, οτι θα πρεπει να παιχτουν με αναποδη φαση.Πραγματικα, αυτοι οι δισκοι αν τους παιζεις με κανονικη φαση, ειχες ενα γρινιαρικο και διασκορπισμενο ηχο, με την αλλαγη της φασεως τα τυμπανα γινονται αιχμηρα οπως στην πραγματικοτητα και επιτελους η Μαρια Καλας κατεβηκε κατω στο πατωμα, απο τους προβολεις της σκηνης που ηταν κρεμασμενη πριν. Τα πικολι και τα τριγωνα σταματησαν να τρεμοπαιζουν.
Δεν επαιζα δυνατα για να μην προκαλεθουν αντανακλασεις που μπορουσαν να επιφερουν αλλες αντιφασικες αντανακλασεις στην δοκιμη.
Οι διακοπτες τωρα θα βιθωθουν μονιμα στην προσοψη του προενισχυτη φιλοι μου και οι δισκοι θα εχουν ενα πρασινο η κοκκινο χαρτακι κολλημενο.Μαντευτε το γιατι.
Φιλικα
Γιαννης
Τα αποτελεσματα απο την χθεσινη δοκιμη:
Δεν πηρα κανενα βομβο απο την μεταθεση του (+) στην γειωση.
Υπαρχει διαφορα, σε καθε δισκο που ακουσα (LP).Μικρη η μεγαλη.
Μαλιστα ανακαλυψα και 2 δισκους που γραφανε με μικρα γραμματα, οτι θα πρεπει να παιχτουν με αναποδη φαση.Πραγματικα, αυτοι οι δισκοι αν τους παιζεις με κανονικη φαση, ειχες ενα γρινιαρικο και διασκορπισμενο ηχο, με την αλλαγη της φασεως τα τυμπανα γινονται αιχμηρα οπως στην πραγματικοτητα και επιτελους η Μαρια Καλας κατεβηκε κατω στο πατωμα, απο τους προβολεις της σκηνης που ηταν κρεμασμενη πριν. Τα πικολι και τα τριγωνα σταματησαν να τρεμοπαιζουν.
Δεν επαιζα δυνατα για να μην προκαλεθουν αντανακλασεις που μπορουσαν να επιφερουν αλλες αντιφασικες αντανακλασεις στην δοκιμη.
Οι διακοπτες τωρα θα βιθωθουν μονιμα στην προσοψη του προενισχυτη φιλοι μου και οι δισκοι θα εχουν ενα πρασινο η κοκκινο χαρτακι κολλημενο.Μαντευτε το γιατι.
Φιλικα
Γιαννης
Internet King
Supreme Member
Απάντηση: Re: EIN/AUSGANG PHASENRICHTIG...
Ο τολμών νικά. :SFGSFGSF: :SFGSFGSF: :SFGSFGSF:
(floating g....)
Ο τολμών νικά. :SFGSFGSF: :SFGSFGSF: :SFGSFGSF:
(floating g....)
Last edited:
Μερικα στοιχεια για τα ηχεια μου, ειναι κατασκευασμενα καπου την δεκαετια του 60 η 70 απο εναν αυτοδιδακτο, εναν DIY μπαρμπα οπως θα τον αποκαλουσαμε σημερα, ειναι περιπου 80 ποντους σε υψος και 45 ποντους στις υπολοιπες διαστασεις τους. Εχουν δυο αστρογγυλα ανοιγματα, τα οποια ρυθμιζονται με ενα πολυ εξυπνο μηχανικο συστημα.
Εχουν ενα μεγαφωνο χαμηλων περιπου 12 ιντζες και μια στρογγυλη κορνα σχεδον διπλα του.
Ο μπαρμπας που τα εχει κατασκευασει δεν υπαρχει πλεον, εδω και καμμια 20αρια χρονια μας εχει αφησει γεια.
Μιλαγε παντα οτι τα ηχεια αυτα ειναι πολυ υψηλης ποιοτητος και παρομοια τους δεν υπαρχουν (υπηρχαν) πουθενα.
Εχουν δυο εξοδους DIN στο πισω μερος και εκει συνδεεις τους ενισχυτες. Ναι ηταν κατασκευασμενα απο τοτε με προβλεψη για μια τετοια συνδεσμολογια, γιατι δεν υπαρχουν φιλτρα μεσα.
Ο μπαρμπας μιλαγε παντα για phasenrichtig αλλα τοτε δεν τον καταλαβαινα τι εννοουσε richtig hahaha. Πανω σε αυτην την αρχη ηταν κατασκευασμενα τα ηχεια του.
Τι μαρκα ειναι τα μεγαφωνα δεν ξερω, μιας και δεν τα εχω ανοιξει ποτε και δεν προκειται να το κανω αν δεν χρειαστει, επειδη μια προσπαθεια που ειχα κανει πριν μερικα χρονια, απο περιεργεια, κατεληξε σε μερικες ρωγμες στο χρωμα της προσοψεως.
Οι τυγχον ερωτησεις σας απαντουνται μεχρι και την Παρασκευη 3 μμ ωρα Κεντρικης Ευρωπης, γιατι μετα γινομαι ενας ευτυχισμενος συνταξιουχος και δεν εχω ιντερνετ πλεον.
Φιλικα
Γιαννης
Εχουν ενα μεγαφωνο χαμηλων περιπου 12 ιντζες και μια στρογγυλη κορνα σχεδον διπλα του.
Ο μπαρμπας που τα εχει κατασκευασει δεν υπαρχει πλεον, εδω και καμμια 20αρια χρονια μας εχει αφησει γεια.
Μιλαγε παντα οτι τα ηχεια αυτα ειναι πολυ υψηλης ποιοτητος και παρομοια τους δεν υπαρχουν (υπηρχαν) πουθενα.
Εχουν δυο εξοδους DIN στο πισω μερος και εκει συνδεεις τους ενισχυτες. Ναι ηταν κατασκευασμενα απο τοτε με προβλεψη για μια τετοια συνδεσμολογια, γιατι δεν υπαρχουν φιλτρα μεσα.
Ο μπαρμπας μιλαγε παντα για phasenrichtig αλλα τοτε δεν τον καταλαβαινα τι εννοουσε richtig hahaha. Πανω σε αυτην την αρχη ηταν κατασκευασμενα τα ηχεια του.
Τι μαρκα ειναι τα μεγαφωνα δεν ξερω, μιας και δεν τα εχω ανοιξει ποτε και δεν προκειται να το κανω αν δεν χρειαστει, επειδη μια προσπαθεια που ειχα κανει πριν μερικα χρονια, απο περιεργεια, κατεληξε σε μερικες ρωγμες στο χρωμα της προσοψεως.
Οι τυγχον ερωτησεις σας απαντουνται μεχρι και την Παρασκευη 3 μμ ωρα Κεντρικης Ευρωπης, γιατι μετα γινομαι ενας ευτυχισμενος συνταξιουχος και δεν εχω ιντερνετ πλεον.
Φιλικα
Γιαννης
Internet King
Supreme Member
κ. Γιάννη Χρήστου, σου εύχομαι καλη ξεκούραση τώρα με την σύνταξη. Το ίντερνετ βέβαια παρέχεται και σε συνταξιούχους οπότε είμαι σίγουρος ότι θα επικοινωνείτε από την Παρασκευή και μετά από το σπίτι.
Τώρα θα έχεις και αρκετό ελεύθερο χρόνο για να επικοινωνείς μαζί μας.
Καλή συνέχεια και πάντα να είσαι καλά.
Τώρα θα έχεις και αρκετό ελεύθερο χρόνο για να επικοινωνείς μαζί μας.
Καλή συνέχεια και πάντα να είσαι καλά.
Βαγγέλης Καινούργιος
Senior Member
Κύριε Χρήστου,
Αν πιστέψω την ημερομηνία γέννησής σας που αναφέρεται στο προφίλ σας (January 9, 1926), μήπως αργήσατε λίγο να βγείτε στη σύνταξη;
Σας εύχομαι να είστε πάντα νέος και, μια και θα έχετε περισσότερο χαλαρό χρόνο τώρα, ευχάριστες ώρες ενασχόλησης με τα πράγματα που αγαπάτε (να τα πω χόμπι
Πάντως, ένας υπολογιστής και μία απλή σύνδεση στο Ίντερνετ από το σπίτι δεν είναι δύσκολη υπόθεση.