Humor mode: on
Φιλε μου πολλοι εχουν καει με το lsd. To παρακατω βιντεο ειναι μαρτυρια ενος φτωχου ανθρωπου ηταν ηταν φανατικος lsd για αυτο προσοχη :BXVZCBXZ6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nARluMbYz0Q
Last edited:
And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
- Thread starter Γιάννης Χατζηγεωργίου
- Start date
Humor mode: on
Φιλε μου πολλοι εχουν καει με το lsd. To παρακατω βιντεο ειναι μαρτυρια ενος φτωχου ανθρωπου ηταν ηταν φανατικος lsd για αυτο προσοχη :BXVZCBXZ6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nARluMbYz0Q
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AVClub Fanatic
- 17 June 2006
- 10,573
Απάντηση: Re: And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
Για να δουμε αλλο ενα απο το cine4home, παλιο, αλλα.....
4.1 A projector ( beamer 3Chip professional )
In the "Projector A" is a bright professional projector that achieved with 3-chip technology according to the manufacturer a maximum light output of 2500Lumen .
In the first step, we measure the maximum light output using a conventional white image.
Conventional measurement with white image
In fact, the projector reaches so ( in high lamp mode), a brightness of 2400 lumens , thus confirming the factory specification , only : The color temperature is much too cold and causes a greenish blueish cast . After calibration to the video standard we measure again and it will remain 1600 lumens , already clearly from the factory specification .
->
->
Now we measure the Color Light Output and achieve for Green 1140Lumen , for red and blue 340Lumen 115Lumen . These individual values add up to 1595 lumens , which proves that the entire brightness of the projector actually completely " plugged in the colors" .
So far so good , now we move on to the color space analysis : The classic color triangle shows that the primary colors are matched in saturation and hue very well on the video standard :
Perfectly balanced color space
according to video standard
The " Color Light Output " But we can only refer to the three-dimensional representation of the color space :
This shows that the color space is spanned evenly with bright colors and added to the " White Peak " in the middle. This causes a bright color display .
4.2 Projector B ( 1Chip entry device)
As a " projector B" , we consider a reasonable presentation projector with 1-chip DLP technology and white segment in the color wheel . For a very reasonable price , the manufacturer promises 2500 lumens light output even here .
Conventional measurement with white image
We repeat the first measurement using a standard white image and actually reaches the projector in the promised White Light Output of 2500 lumens , the manufacturer has so do not lie. He, too, but did not mention that the calibration costs valuable light on the video standard is around 1650 lumens remain correct color temperature. But this is a slightly higher light output than with projector A, this model should be better?
->
->
Color Light Output measurement
Brings clarity only the measurement of Color Light Output using the primary colors : 850Lumen for green, 250Lumen for red and blue for 80Lumen add up to only 1180 lumens. This proves that not all of the brightness of the projector is converted into bright colors, but only about two-thirds .
With the classic color triangle , this difference can , however, do not represent , because our 1Chip projector displays perfectly matched saturation and hues of the primary colors. The fact that the actual color space of the projector smaller fails, you can see only in the three-dimensional representation :
Here you can see that although the white level is very high, the actual color but are very " dark " in relation thereto .
Για να δουμε αλλο ενα απο το cine4home, παλιο, αλλα.....
4.1 A projector ( beamer 3Chip professional )
In the "Projector A" is a bright professional projector that achieved with 3-chip technology according to the manufacturer a maximum light output of 2500Lumen .
In the first step, we measure the maximum light output using a conventional white image.
Conventional measurement with white image
In fact, the projector reaches so ( in high lamp mode), a brightness of 2400 lumens , thus confirming the factory specification , only : The color temperature is much too cold and causes a greenish blueish cast . After calibration to the video standard we measure again and it will remain 1600 lumens , already clearly from the factory specification .
Now we measure the Color Light Output and achieve for Green 1140Lumen , for red and blue 340Lumen 115Lumen . These individual values add up to 1595 lumens , which proves that the entire brightness of the projector actually completely " plugged in the colors" .
So far so good , now we move on to the color space analysis : The classic color triangle shows that the primary colors are matched in saturation and hue very well on the video standard :
Perfectly balanced color space
according to video standard
The " Color Light Output " But we can only refer to the three-dimensional representation of the color space :
This shows that the color space is spanned evenly with bright colors and added to the " White Peak " in the middle. This causes a bright color display .
4.2 Projector B ( 1Chip entry device)
As a " projector B" , we consider a reasonable presentation projector with 1-chip DLP technology and white segment in the color wheel . For a very reasonable price , the manufacturer promises 2500 lumens light output even here .
Conventional measurement with white image
We repeat the first measurement using a standard white image and actually reaches the projector in the promised White Light Output of 2500 lumens , the manufacturer has so do not lie. He, too, but did not mention that the calibration costs valuable light on the video standard is around 1650 lumens remain correct color temperature. But this is a slightly higher light output than with projector A, this model should be better?
Color Light Output measurement
Brings clarity only the measurement of Color Light Output using the primary colors : 850Lumen for green, 250Lumen for red and blue for 80Lumen add up to only 1180 lumens. This proves that not all of the brightness of the projector is converted into bright colors, but only about two-thirds .
With the classic color triangle , this difference can , however, do not represent , because our 1Chip projector displays perfectly matched saturation and hues of the primary colors. The fact that the actual color space of the projector smaller fails, you can see only in the three-dimensional representation :
Here you can see that although the white level is very high, the actual color but are very " dark " in relation thereto .
Last edited:
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AVClub Fanatic
- 17 June 2006
- 10,573
....
.....
In order to compare these findings and their implications for image display vivid , let's look more closely at the color space . In the three-dimensional view of the brightness of the primary colors is clear :
Top: color level of projector A
Bottom: color level from projector B
On these charts you can see directly how much more light reaches projector A in the primary colors red , green and blue. This difference will be consequently in the volume of noticeable color spaces :
Top: color space of projector A
Bottom: color space of the projector B
Here you can see how although comparable brightness in the white point can be achieved , but this at the 1Chip projector with white segment in the color wheel with increasing saturation drops much steeper . This applies to all primary and secondary colors :
Each left: color level of the 3-chip projector
To the right : 1Chip projector with white segment
.....
In order to compare these findings and their implications for image display vivid , let's look more closely at the color space . In the three-dimensional view of the brightness of the primary colors is clear :
Top: color level of projector A
Bottom: color level from projector B
On these charts you can see directly how much more light reaches projector A in the primary colors red , green and blue. This difference will be consequently in the volume of noticeable color spaces :
Top: color space of projector A
Bottom: color space of the projector B
Here you can see how although comparable brightness in the white point can be achieved , but this at the 1Chip projector with white segment in the color wheel with increasing saturation drops much steeper . This applies to all primary and secondary colors :
Each left: color level of the 3-chip projector
To the right : 1Chip projector with white segment
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AVClub Fanatic
- 17 June 2006
- 10,573
The difference can easily be projected graphically by means of a simple test image on the screen : The white level is almost identical high, the brightness of the colors but not :
For an even more practical illustration, we still lead an image analysis using our already used in Chapter 2 Real image by :
Our " demo recording " is a classic design with natural colors (trees / sky) and high contrast without color ( clouds). All common colors of the image are marked by dots in the diagram below :
All shades of the image in the color space
It is easily seen that the image contains vast bright blue, orange and greens without too high saturation. If we now compare the two projectors directly with each other , it becomes clear different bright as they represent these colors :
Links : Color and white level of projector A
Right: B Projector
The above color analysis shows the direct comparison, while the white level ( the clouds ) the same height is two projectors , succeeds much brighter display , as a projector as a result , the image projector A, the color of the picture altogether more harmonious and at the same time illuminating :
Above: A projector
Below projector B
Only in the bright and colorless picture elements , both projectors are equivalent in all other "wins" the projector without white segment or White emphasis because it mixes all the colors of the image entirely from its basic colors and not " nachhellt " with pure white artificial.
5 Conclusion
This great special on brightness and light output points to differentiate that the official factory specifications (Lumen value in the technical data ) are not very informative and does not allow practical conclusions as to the actual image brightness on the home screen. While it is in most cases possible to achieve the promised brightness "somehow" , but make the manufacturers usually no information as to what the circumstances. Be disregarded primarily :
Proper calibration of the color temperature according to video standard ( 6500K / D65)
Light yield of pure primary colors
The former aspect is taken into account in conventional tests for some time , because of the usual brightness measurement using white image , the associated color temperature can easily be determined . The loss of light by a calibration depending on the model and projection between 5 % (very good) and 60 % ( poor).
The second aspect of the brightness contrast is in many cases still too short. Here one can only be determined by separately measuring the basic colors , how much light yield a projector actually achieved in a "color image " .
->
->
The three results are added together to give the so-called " Color Light Output ." We extend the method of measurement nor different measuring points from , we get the Color Light Output according to ANSI :
->
->
The measurement of all nine areas of the image is carried out for a color by three special test images in a row:
Only when adding the primary colors accurately in brightness to the brightness of white, a projector can actually fully implement its lumen performance in image brightness. And only if the brightness ratio of the primary colors true to each other , the image composition is original.
From now on we will therefore make measurements to determine and list in tabular form in all upcoming tests in addition to the conventional lumen information at white images and the Color Light Output . For further study of the subject , we will also perform a special with real results for selected test candidates of different genres and publish in the coming weeks.
29 June , 2011
Ekkehart Schmitt
www.Cine4Home.de
For an even more practical illustration, we still lead an image analysis using our already used in Chapter 2 Real image by :
Our " demo recording " is a classic design with natural colors (trees / sky) and high contrast without color ( clouds). All common colors of the image are marked by dots in the diagram below :
All shades of the image in the color space
It is easily seen that the image contains vast bright blue, orange and greens without too high saturation. If we now compare the two projectors directly with each other , it becomes clear different bright as they represent these colors :
Links : Color and white level of projector A
Right: B Projector
The above color analysis shows the direct comparison, while the white level ( the clouds ) the same height is two projectors , succeeds much brighter display , as a projector as a result , the image projector A, the color of the picture altogether more harmonious and at the same time illuminating :
Above: A projector
Below projector B
Only in the bright and colorless picture elements , both projectors are equivalent in all other "wins" the projector without white segment or White emphasis because it mixes all the colors of the image entirely from its basic colors and not " nachhellt " with pure white artificial.
5 Conclusion
This great special on brightness and light output points to differentiate that the official factory specifications (Lumen value in the technical data ) are not very informative and does not allow practical conclusions as to the actual image brightness on the home screen. While it is in most cases possible to achieve the promised brightness "somehow" , but make the manufacturers usually no information as to what the circumstances. Be disregarded primarily :
Proper calibration of the color temperature according to video standard ( 6500K / D65)
Light yield of pure primary colors
The former aspect is taken into account in conventional tests for some time , because of the usual brightness measurement using white image , the associated color temperature can easily be determined . The loss of light by a calibration depending on the model and projection between 5 % (very good) and 60 % ( poor).
The second aspect of the brightness contrast is in many cases still too short. Here one can only be determined by separately measuring the basic colors , how much light yield a projector actually achieved in a "color image " .
The three results are added together to give the so-called " Color Light Output ." We extend the method of measurement nor different measuring points from , we get the Color Light Output according to ANSI :
The measurement of all nine areas of the image is carried out for a color by three special test images in a row:
Only when adding the primary colors accurately in brightness to the brightness of white, a projector can actually fully implement its lumen performance in image brightness. And only if the brightness ratio of the primary colors true to each other , the image composition is original.
From now on we will therefore make measurements to determine and list in tabular form in all upcoming tests in addition to the conventional lumen information at white images and the Color Light Output . For further study of the subject , we will also perform a special with real results for selected test candidates of different genres and publish in the coming weeks.
29 June , 2011
Ekkehart Schmitt
www.Cine4Home.de
- 19 June 2006
- 35,670
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AVClub Fanatic
- 17 June 2006
- 10,573
Απάντηση: Re: And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
Γιατι? Μεχρι τωρα δεν σας εχουν απασχολησει ?
Που ξερεις, μπορει να βγαλει η επσον τηλεοραση
Σιγά-σιγά, θα μας απασχολήσουν και στις τηλεοράσεις όλα αυτά...
Γιατι? Μεχρι τωρα δεν σας εχουν απασχολησει ?
Που ξερεις, μπορει να βγαλει η επσον τηλεοραση
Re: Απάντηση: And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
Έρχονται κάτι διατάξεις RGBW σε OLED και LCD, για άλλα κόλπα...
Α, ναι... Είχαμε και κάτι RGBY από Sharp εδώ και λίγα χρόνια, αλλά δεν τις πήρε κανείς στα σοβαρά αυτές... :silly:
Σιγά-σιγά, θα μας απασχολήσουν και στις τηλεοράσεις όλα αυτά...
Έρχονται κάτι διατάξεις RGBW σε OLED και LCD, για άλλα κόλπα...
Α, ναι... Είχαμε και κάτι RGBY από Sharp εδώ και λίγα χρόνια, αλλά δεν τις πήρε κανείς στα σοβαρά αυτές... :silly:
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AVClub Fanatic
- 17 June 2006
- 10,573
Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
Tα παραπανω οπως ειδες, ειναι μονο για rgb ομως :ears:
Έρχονται κάτι διατάξεις RGBW σε OLED και LCD, για άλλα κόλπα...
Α, ναι... Είχαμε και κάτι RGBY από Sharp εδώ και λίγα χρόνια, αλλά δεν τις πήρε κανείς στα σοβαρά αυτές... :silly:
Tα παραπανω οπως ειδες, ειναι μονο για rgb ομως :ears:
Re: Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
Δεν το διάβασες καλά το άρθρο, Χρήστο... :silly:
Δεν το διάβασες καλά το άρθρο, Χρήστο... :silly:
- 19 June 2006
- 35,670
Φυσικά!
Κανείς προβολέας RGBRGB δεν παρουσιάζει μείωση φωτεινότητας χρωμάτων. Αν θέλεις Χρήστο, σχολιάζουμε και το άρθρο...καθώς επίσης και τις φωτογραφίες που έβαλε ο Γερμανός.
Γιάννη, λες ότι θα έχουν τέτοιο θέμα οι OLED?
Κανείς προβολέας RGBRGB δεν παρουσιάζει μείωση φωτεινότητας χρωμάτων. Αν θέλεις Χρήστο, σχολιάζουμε και το άρθρο...καθώς επίσης και τις φωτογραφίες που έβαλε ο Γερμανός.
Γιάννη, λες ότι θα έχουν τέτοιο θέμα οι OLED?
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Re: Απάντηση: And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
Ναι, αρκεί να μιλάμε για τροχό χωρίς άλλα segments πέραν των RGB και τεχνάσματα τύπου Brilliant color να είναι απενεργοποιημένα...
Οι RGBW έχουν τα φόντα για να έχουν, αλλά μέχρι να δούμε αναλυτικές μετρήσεις δεν μπορούμε να είμαστε σίγουροι. Θα μπορούσαν π.χ. τα λευκά υπο-εικονοστοιχεία να είναι ενεργά μόνο στα mode εντυπωσιασμού και στα ISF modes να απενεργοποιούνται...
Ναι, αρκεί να μιλάμε για τροχό χωρίς άλλα segments πέραν των RGB και τεχνάσματα τύπου Brilliant color να είναι απενεργοποιημένα...
Οι RGBW έχουν τα φόντα για να έχουν, αλλά μέχρι να δούμε αναλυτικές μετρήσεις δεν μπορούμε να είμαστε σίγουροι. Θα μπορούσαν π.χ. τα λευκά υπο-εικονοστοιχεία να είναι ενεργά μόνο στα mode εντυπωσιασμού και στα ISF modes να απενεργοποιούνται...
- 19 June 2006
- 35,670
Μια χαρά ενδιαφέρον είναι το άρθρο και φυσικά δεν αμφισβητώ τις μετρήσεις του. Καλό, όμως, θα είναι να ξεκαθαρίζονται ορισμένα τεχνικά θέματα ώστε να μην αφήνονται εντυπώσεις και παραπλανητικές διαφημιστικές ρεκλάμες όπως έκανε η Έπσον στο συγκεκριμένο ζήτημα. Αφού, λοιπόν, ξαναδώσουμε έμφαση στο κομμάτι ''white segment'' το οποίο είναι καθοριστικό και το μοναδικό υπεύθυνο για την πτώση φωτεινότητας των χρωμάτων καθώς επίσης ότι το άρθρο αφορά και μιλάει για data μηχανάκια των οποίων (σχεδόν) αποκλειστικός σκοπός είναι η απόδοση φωτεινών εικόνων και όχι το color fidelity, μπορούμε να μπούμε και στα περαιτέρω.
Αρχικά, δεν μας αναφέρει πόσο μεγάλο είναι το white segment στο DLP data μηχάνημα που δοκίμασε. Όσο πιο μεγάλο είναι, τόσο μεγαλύτερη θα είναι η πτώση. Απ' όσο γνωρίζω, δεν υπάρχει φιξ διάσταση γι' αυτό. Κάθε εταιρεία βάζει τα δικά της.
Κατά δεύτερον, μπορούμε να μπούμε και στα ''χωράφια'' του γάτου...
Το ανθρώπινο μάτι αντιλαμβάνεται το 18% του φωτός ως μείωση φωτεινότητας στα μισά (παρότι έχει χαθεί το 82%). Τι άμεση επίπτωση έχει στο μάτι και πως αυτό αντιλαμβάνεται ένα 20% πτώσης? και μάλιστα σε κινούμενες και γρήγορα εναλλασσόμενες εικόνες? Είναι η διάσταση που δίνουν οι φωτογραφίες?
Αρχικά, δεν μας αναφέρει πόσο μεγάλο είναι το white segment στο DLP data μηχάνημα που δοκίμασε. Όσο πιο μεγάλο είναι, τόσο μεγαλύτερη θα είναι η πτώση. Απ' όσο γνωρίζω, δεν υπάρχει φιξ διάσταση γι' αυτό. Κάθε εταιρεία βάζει τα δικά της.
Κατά δεύτερον, μπορούμε να μπούμε και στα ''χωράφια'' του γάτου...
Το ανθρώπινο μάτι αντιλαμβάνεται το 18% του φωτός ως μείωση φωτεινότητας στα μισά (παρότι έχει χαθεί το 82%). Τι άμεση επίπτωση έχει στο μάτι και πως αυτό αντιλαμβάνεται ένα 20% πτώσης? και μάλιστα σε κινούμενες και γρήγορα εναλλασσόμενες εικόνες? Είναι η διάσταση που δίνουν οι φωτογραφίες?
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AVClub Fanatic
- 17 June 2006
- 10,573
Απάντηση: Re: Απάντηση: And the Oscar goes to...........EPSON!!!
Τη λογικη την καταλαβαινω. RGB η RGBRGB ναι, ΟΚ. Ψαχνω βεβαια να δω αντιστοιχα 3dτριγωνα απο τετοιους προβολεις, αλλα δεν βρισκω (τι γινεται ρε παιδακι μου, δεν ασχολειται κανεις με dlp πλεον ? ).
Αν δεις τιποτα , ριχτο.
Και για το BC συνφωνω.
Οσο για τις τηλεορασεις oled ξεled κτλ, δε λεω, το τελευταιο που κοιτανε μαλλον, ειναι η "αναφορα"
Ναι, αρκεί να μιλάμε για τροχό χωρίς άλλα segments πέραν των RGB και τεχνάσματα τύπου Brilliant color να είναι απενεργοποιημένα...
....
Τη λογικη την καταλαβαινω. RGB η RGBRGB ναι, ΟΚ. Ψαχνω βεβαια να δω αντιστοιχα 3dτριγωνα απο τετοιους προβολεις, αλλα δεν βρισκω (τι γινεται ρε παιδακι μου, δεν ασχολειται κανεις με dlp πλεον ?
). Αν δεις τιποτα , ριχτο.
Και για το BC συνφωνω.
Οσο για τις τηλεορασεις oled ξεled κτλ, δε λεω, το τελευταιο που κοιτανε μαλλον, ειναι η "αναφορα"
- 19 June 2006
- 35,670
- 19 June 2006
- 35,670
